8 replies to this topic

[Galen]

I'm still on my Disney animation trip. Enjoy it while it lasts


Most of the main Disney animated heroes have been Delta. Actually, I can't think of any exceptions to this aside from maaaaaaybe Alladin. I feel like a disproportionate amount of them have been some ENFp: Bianca (Rescuers), Ariel, Simba, Perdi (101 Dalmatians), Todd (Fox and the Hound), Lady (& The Tramp), Robin Hood, and even some of the newer Renaissance heroes like Quasimodo and Pocahontas (open to alternatives on him). I'm sure this is because Walt Disney himself was ENFp himself, but it does seem a bit excessive. Even the main characters who aren't ENFp are very Delta: Belle (I'd say INFj, but everyone else seems to think ENFp), Pongo (Dalmatians), and Bernard (Rescuers) come to mind in these cases. What's more, quite a few of them seem very E6 for whatever reason (Simba, Todd, Quasimodo come to mind). After the main characters you have a shitton of Delta STs as either love interests or important supporting characters: Beast, Phoebus (Notre Dame), Nala/Mufasa, Bagheera, etc etc etc. Plus not to mention all the Beta extrovert villians: Gaston, Cruella DeVille, Medusa (Rescuers), Scar, Ursula, et al. Then beyond that the sidekicks tend to have a sort of Alpha streak to them, with your Baloos, Gargoyles (Notre Dame), Timons + Pumbaas, and animated household shit (Beauty & The Beast) to name a few. To the best of my knowledge, Gamma characters are almost nowhere to be found, or at least none come to mind.

I kinda wonder, is this kind of Delta character schema supposed to be the most relate-able to a wide audience? Or is this just the kind of character that Disney has gotten to use to creating time and time again? Sure each of the main characters have their own goals and drives and nuanced personalities, but from what I've observed many of them share these similar socio-ennea traits.

[BulletsAndDoves]

I like you. But you're such full of shit, doll.

I'm Beta and I like Disney too. Anybody with a heart loves Disney. If you don't like Disney movies it's like you have no soul. (cartmen from southpark probably doesn't like disney movies lmao)

Disney heroes aren't 'Delta.' Disney heroes are designed by narcissistic ceo hollywood writers that are made for you to like it. So they are ultimately very sympathetic. They are like those poor losers that are really courageous underneath it all, and nobody knows it except for hollywood CEOs and their moms. And they are discriminated against for being kind and heroic. And they have a lot of flaws too. They are just what everybody wants to be. Like everybody knows what it feels like to be laughed at for being a loser by stuck up preppy bitches. You know? it's so relateable. That's why disney is so heartwarming it knows you're a good guy no matter how hard u try to hide it.

Guess what. Sean likes Disney too. Maybe it's cuz we're all gay.

Scar isn't Beta either. Scar is Scar. Betas aren't assholes designed to hurt your Delta fag feelings and to drive you insane. Don't you think that impression is somewhat silly? You DO NOT BOTHER ME AT ALL. Why do you think people hate you when they don't? I'm sorry but you ALWAYS do this and its just not true. You are so cute and adorable. I want to make you into a plushie, honestly. Like a Tails doll. You're sensitive and not a straight man and that turns me on. =( It turns my soul on at least.

[Gilly]

omg Galen is such a Tails, kind of like the opposite kind of Tails that strrrng is, lol.

[Gilly]

Disney is probably the single greatest reason for the essential demonization of all things Beta in American culture.

[Galen]

BulletsAndDoves, on 10 December 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

I like you. But you're such full of shit, doll.

I'm Beta and I like Disney too. Anybody with a heart loves Disney. If you don't like Disney movies it's like you have no soul. (cartmen from southpark probably doesn't like disney movies lmao)

This thread isn't necessarily about whether or not Beta or Deltas or whatever types like Disney. I'm more talking about Disney itself: the themes present, the characters/heroes/villians, the people who work behind the scenes, etc etc. I mean, I like South Park every now and then and it's pretty much the most Beta cartoon out there. It's the same principal that allows Alphas to enjoy Bob Dylan music, or for Gammas to enjoy Family Guy or Curb Your Enthusiasm.

BulletsAndDoves, on 10 December 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

Disney heroes aren't 'Delta.' Disney heroes are designed by narcissistic ceo hollywood writers that are made for you to like it. So they are ultimately very sympathetic. They are like those poor losers that are really courageous underneath it all, and nobody knows it except for hollywood CEOs and their moms. And they are discriminated against for being kind and heroic. And they have a lot of flaws too. They are just what everybody wants to be. Like everybody knows what it feels like to be laughed at for being a loser by stuck up preppy bitches. You know? it's so relateable. That's why disney is so heartwarming it knows you're a good guy no matter how hard u try to hide it.

How are they "narcissistic"? From what I can tell the people who write these stories take their job very seriously.

BulletsAndDoves, on 10 December 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

Guess what. Sean likes Disney too. Maybe it's cuz we're all gay.

Again, this thread isn't about "liking Disney." But yeah the gay part probably helps lol.

BulletsAndDoves, on 10 December 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

Scar isn't Beta either. Scar is Scar. Betas aren't assholes designed to hurt your Delta fag feelings and to drive you insane. Don't you think that impression is somewhat silly? You DO NOT BOTHER ME AT ALL. Why do you think people hate you when they don't? I'm sorry but you ALWAYS do this and its just not true. You are so cute and adorable. I want to make you into a plushie, honestly. Like a Tails doll. You're sensitive and not a straight man and that turns me on. =( It turns my soul on at least.

Uh, you're blowing this way out of proportion. I'm in no way saying that all betas are assholes, because they're not. What I'm trying to say is that from what I observe, villains in Disney animation tend to exhibit very Beta traits, and likewise, the protagonists exhibit very Delta traits. I'm not taking out any hatred towards Betas in this thread, I'm making observations. You tend to not bother me either, but I do get annoyed when you have these hyper-personalized overblown reactions to what I say.

[typhon]

Well, I did know an ENFj-Fe girl who was big into the beauty and the beast. Come to think of it I cant think of many people who are into Disney, one isolated case proves nothing. Then theres you Galen who is also appearently into disney, and a delta. So I really dunno, because I dont know enough people that are into it, though it does seem kind of "aristoctratic"(especially classic disney).

[poli]

I think Scuttle is Si-ESFj

[Nick]

It makes sense to me, from a sociological pov; and I wouldn't say Disney's being ENFp has too much to do with it. Your beta/delta observations are correct imo, and bear parallels in other realms, namely crime/law. Both demonizing and elevating criminality (because, really, anyone with half a spark of chaos within them can appreciate someone like Scar) while effacing the 'fight for good' under some mythic set of events that seems insurmountable, is a way to reinforce basic life attitudes. No longer is it a choice between acting daringly or humbly toward a state of happiness, but instead, you either push along ('I know I can!') or deviate too far (symbolized by the wasteland in Lion King). This has the combined effect of inspiring hope and belief in the goodwill of people and life in general, while shadowing certain fears they may have about themselves, as they relate to society's well-being. It also extends into theme parks, video games, etc.

[poli]

It really depends on the movie, but most of the classics I can think of tend to be . There are movies where I get way too many vibes, and they usually star characters like in Beauty and the Beast, from my personal perspective just kind of an overall obnoxious, emotive and playful feel, but also in the theoretical sense of being playful. They lay things out in an objectively ethical format and speak for everyone and every thing, which always compliments the main character's thoughts and perspective. Then you have based disney movies, which from what I've seen all star main characters, such as The Lion King, which are far more relatable to me personally, there's an obvious 'internal relationship' based undercurrent that is way too exposed and destroyed in movies, and a lingering sense of sentiments there, a deep questioning of emotions (subjective filter), and characters with general theme fitting the serious dichotomy. I don't really know how some people aren't seeing the difference I'm seeing, but whatever I guess. Everything Belle classifies ethically is in terms of to me. It's just she's exactly how I expect an dominant to interact with her surroundings, the in the moment which she takes part in isn't a huge aspect of her character as much as what is hinted at in her desires in relation to her perception of others, her "story." Someone like Simba, on the other hand, is totally opposed to and distanced from most , and it's like he's discarding, not supporting, all the outside ethics coming into question. Like any user he has no way to appropriate any objective ethical current, only his own. And of course just because Belle is a light, peaceful, emotionally distant disney character doesn't mean she's Delta, as these actually speak somewhat for in this context, for as an introvert she much more easily complements and builds on the ethical context, just as Simba's stark emotionality speaks for in his context. People will see what they want to see in Belle, I guess, but it's still irrelevant to there actually being any signs as far as I can tell.

Some overall disney movies are The Lion King, The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules, Cinderella, Toy Story.
Some overall disney movies are Hunchback of Notre Dam, Beauty and the Beast, Mulan, some more that aren't coming to me, probably because I don't really care as much.

In movies I've noticed there's usually much more of a back and forth from ethical reality to one's own sentiments transition, as it emphasizes whatever difference is typical of the main character's subjective state. The thing with Belle is its not anything ethically introverted, as she follows that same objective wavelength through and through quite simply, as it is purely intuitively introverted, which is why her distance is not an emotional distance but a thought distance. Fantasy within a fantasy? ? I think so. There's no sense of externalized thought exploration for there to be attachment, as you get from the more mentally daring, planning, outside the box thinking creatives, like ie. Rafiki, Scar, Jafar, and even compare them to the intuitive distance of creatives ie. Esmeralda, Wendy, Iago. Sure some of these characters require more personality exploration on your behalf, but the difference is quite there.