14 replies to this topic

[Jimbean]

[poli]

The old humanist trick. No I don't relate to listening to people, lol. I guess I relate to the attitude idea, but its too overstressed for me to care. The Jungian Fi description sounds better. "Usually they succeed and win lots of acquaintances from their social roles" What does that even mean, lol. Ne: "We must ask, what do humanists do to achieve the high ethical standards set by channel one."

[Galen]

Yeah that sounds like me alright.

Also I don't understand why Ralph Fiennes is always typed as INFj. He comes across as much more ISTj to me.

[eunice]

Galen, on 08 November 2010 - 06:20 AM, said:

Also I don't understand why Ralph Fiennes is always typed as INFj. He comes across as much more ISTj to me.

I feel uncomfortable whenever I watch Ralph Fiennes in movies. Must have been the impression I have gotten from "Harry Potter" and "Schindler's List". Lol.

[Airborne]

The video is great in at least one sense:

this guy explains the 8 functions in a different manner than I've heard before. He says 'channel' of function 3 is the area of fear and insecurity. This contradicts what I've learnt about it being function 4.
His understanding of the Information Elements also seems very good and has broadened my perspective of them.
I didn´t think that Fe was related to how/what other people think, as opposed to your own subjective opinions Fi. Bravo.

[Ashton]

I've always seen Ralph Fiennes as a β-rational type. He looks too natural as a Nazi lol:



Richard Gere's ESFj and David Lynch is INFp.

[Gilly]

Yeah I'll go with LSI for Fiennes:




Here's him being receptive to Fe:

[Gilly]

lol Betas



Holy shitfuck, this might be the all-around most LSI picture I've ever seen in my life:



e;rigsfueggor Daniel Day Lewis ;ejafuorhew4g5

[poli]

I've always liked Ralph Fiennes, especially in that English Patient movie, he seems innocent. But I like people of lots of types, so whatever.

Ashton, on 09 November 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

I've always seen Ralph Fiennes as a β-rational type. He looks too natural as a Nazi lol:

Lol, good find.

[Galen]

Airborne, on 09 November 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

The video is great in at least one sense:

this guy explains the 8 functions in a different manner than I've heard before. He says 'channel' of function 3 is the area of fear and insecurity. This contradicts what I've learnt about it being function 4.

Yeah, from what I've seen the "3rd" function is the big point of fear or anxiety, like it's attempted to be used but to no real avail. Conversely, the 4th function is just completely ignored, so any information coming from it will seem be way out of left field.

[poli]

Galen, on 09 November 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

Airborne, on 09 November 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

The video is great in at least one sense:

this guy explains the 8 functions in a different manner than I've heard before. He says 'channel' of function 3 is the area of fear and insecurity. This contradicts what I've learnt about it being function 4.

Yeah, from what I've seen the "3rd" function is the big point of fear or anxiety, like it's attempted to be used but to no real avail. Conversely, the 4th function is just completely ignored, so any information coming from it will seem be way out of left field.

I agree with this too. I think the opposite weak functions are the most "ignored" ones, and the weak functions of same wavelength are the "feared" ones. So for INFj, Se and Ni are ignored, and Fe and Ti are feared. But that's just my experience.

[Galen]

polikujm, on 09 November 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

Galen, on 09 November 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

Airborne, on 09 November 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

The video is great in at least one sense:

this guy explains the 8 functions in a different manner than I've heard before. He says 'channel' of function 3 is the area of fear and insecurity. This contradicts what I've learnt about it being function 4.

Yeah, from what I've seen the "3rd" function is the big point of fear or anxiety, like it's attempted to be used but to no real avail. Conversely, the 4th function is just completely ignored, so any information coming from it will seem be way out of left field.

I agree with this too. I think the opposite weak functions are the most "ignored" ones, and the weak functions of same wavelength are the "feared" ones. So for INFj, Se and Ni are ignored, and Fe and Ti are feared. But that's just my experience.

But the problem is that I personally find myself "fearing" or getting more easily frustrated/anxious about Ti. Subtype maybe?

[poli]

I think that might actually make sense, since the subtype is considered like a dominant function, and you relate a lot to jung's Fi description. So perhaps there's more of a clashing anxiety that goes with the PoLR of creative subtypes? Would have to get more perspectives on that. Not sure if its temperament related because there are ENTps who don't recognize or worry about Fi I think. For me, Se doesn't click with me, and its often blocked out consciously so with little worry, just rejected. I'm mainly anxious about it (here and there) when others force it on me suddenly or when there are "reactional expectations", but its nothing big and I can normally smooth it over in my mind. There might be a situation I'm not defining as Se where the tension builds up day after day, but nothing is coming to mind. I have suffered emotionally with some anxiety about my daily experiences every now and again, but that seems more Fi related or unrelated.

[Airborne]

Galen, on 09 November 2010 - 08:09 PM, said:

polikujm, on 09 November 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

Galen, on 09 November 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

Airborne, on 09 November 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

The video is great in at least one sense:

this guy explains the 8 functions in a different manner than I've heard before. He says 'channel' of function 3 is the area of fear and insecurity. This contradicts what I've learnt about it being function 4.

Yeah, from what I've seen the "3rd" function is the big point of fear or anxiety, like it's attempted to be used but to no real avail. Conversely, the 4th function is just completely ignored, so any information coming from it will seem be way out of left field.

I agree with this too. I think the opposite weak functions are the most "ignored" ones, and the weak functions of same wavelength are the "feared" ones. So for INFj, Se and Ni are ignored, and Fe and Ti are feared. But that's just my experience.

But the problem is that I personally find myself "fearing" or getting more easily frustrated/anxious about Ti. Subtype maybe?

Galen, I don´t think it´s subtype thing. I think both 3rd and 4th functions are problematic areas. I see myself also more anxious about Ni than about Fe. I don´t know whether this guy on the video has a substantiated approach to Socionics or whether he´s just some russian with enough spare time who read about socionics some months ago and made his own crazy theories. But it does sound like he has a point.

To me the point is: both 3rd and 4th functions are problematic aspects of the personality. The 5th and 6th functions ARE NOT AS PROBLEMATIC, i.e., the super-id functions are more easily used. He says the suggestive function is 'the place where one would like to be'... this reminds me of HA, which is mobilizing function. Perhaps there is a SIMILARITY between 3rd and 4th, and 5th and 6th, functions, that we at present know not much about, I think this is his point. They are probably functions which function in a very similar manner. It would be like you have two PoLRs and two HAs. That´s my view of his explanation. And it seems to make sense. In fact I see all functions working together in blocks. Whenever I use demonstrative Se, I notice I use Ti instead of Te (this has been happening in classes so I can evaluate that). And my Id Functions are Se and Ti as you know. Also, when I´m using Te, Si is also there lurking, same thing if I´m using Si vice-versa. So I think the blocks of the psyche represent very similar functions which work together. Ego - area of expression and achievement, Super-Ego - area of problems and awkwardness , Super-Id - area of wishes, desires, and Id - area of strong unconscious impulses. In the Freudian sense, the Id represents the will to pleasure, the Id is wild and knows no limits to its satisfaction, so it is countered by the Super-Ego, while the Ego is in the middle of these two extremes of libertine behavior and total denial of gratification and pleasure.

[Galen]

Airborne, on 11 November 2010 - 12:00 PM, said:

Galen, I don´t think it´s subtype thing. I think both 3rd and 4th functions are problematic areas. I see myself also more anxious about Ni than about Fe. I don´t know whether this guy on the video has a substantiated approach to Socionics or whether he´s just some russian with enough spare time who read about socionics some months ago and made his own crazy theories. But it does sound like he has a point.

To me the point is: both 3rd and 4th functions are problematic aspects of the personality. The 5th and 6th functions ARE NOT AS PROBLEMATIC, i.e., the super-id functions are more easily used. He says the suggestive function is 'the place where one would like to be'... this reminds me of HA, which is mobilizing function. Perhaps there is a SIMILARITY between 3rd and 4th, and 5th and 6th, functions, that we at present know not much about, I think this is his point. They are probably functions which function in a very similar manner. It would be like you have two PoLRs and two HAs. That´s my view of his explanation. And it seems to make sense. In fact I see all functions working together in blocks. Whenever I use demonstrative Se, I notice I use Ti instead of Te (this has been happening in classes so I can evaluate that). And my Id Functions are Se and Ti as you know. Also, when I´m using Te, Si is also there lurking, same thing if I´m using Si vice-versa. So I think the blocks of the psyche represent very similar functions which work together. Ego - area of expression and achievement, Super-Ego - area of problems and awkwardness , Super-Id - area of wishes, desires, and Id - area of strong unconscious impulses. In the Freudian sense, the Id represents the will to pleasure, the Id is wild and knows no limits to its satisfaction, so it is countered by the Super-Ego, while the Ego is in the middle of these two extremes of libertine behavior and total denial of gratification and pleasure.

Hmm, this whole post makes a lot of sense to me. It's delving into what Ashton theorizes about there being no "strong/weak" dichotomy, where it's just replaced with "valued/unvalued". Good stuff