7 replies to this topic

[Golden]

Okay, I'll post. Step 1 for me in learning about Socionics has been to start understanding the information elements and the functions, and to see how these play out in people I know.

This has gotten me past the very generic descriptions one runs into, which aren't much good for typing but can be amazingly on-the-dot sometimes, depending on the person in question and how well I know their habits.

Now I'm hoping to better understand the different types of relations, again, going beyond the vague descriptions available. So anything anyone would like to say about Illusionary (Mirage) would be great.

My seven-year-old son appears to be ILE, and I'm IEI. (His dad is LSE--we can save that one for another day, lol).

How do you think Illusionary relations are apt to play out in a parent-child relationship? I have a thread about my son in "the other forum" here:

http://www.the16type...type-child.html

And there's a thread over there about Illusionaries ATM:

http://www.the16type...usionaries.html

I read some Wikisocion tidbit about how Illusionary relations can be better or worse depending on the nature of who is the more dominant person in the relationship:

Quote

According to Filatova, the one in charge is important - if it is the more positive of the two, or the one more that is more of a natural psychologist, then the relation will run smoothly. Out of the four illusionary cases Filatova offers, two have the same types, but the one in charge is reversed. In the more successful relationships, the only dichotomy shared by the three types in charge is static. IEEs, which she says are life-loving optimists, are negativists.

What do you make of that?

Really, any thoughts or experiences with these relationships would be great. My first boyfriend was ILE, and that didn't go so very well.

[Galen]

Illusory relationships can be pretty good if the subtypes match up right. However in general, illusory relations can play out as a sort of, uhm, neutrality between each other I guess. The things that are most sought after in other people are replaced with a sort of "oh, that's weird" reaction. Not sure how it would play out in terms of parent/child relationships aside from a tendancy to simply not feel a need to interact with one another. Subtypes play a lot into intertype relations too, so it could really go either way.

Golden, on 20 October 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

(His dad is LSE--we can save that one for another day, lol).

I would rather you save that for right now, because this seems like an unavoidable discrepancy that has to be sorted out haha.

[Golden]

Galen, on 20 October 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

I would rather you save that for right now, because this seems like an unavoidable discrepancy that has to be sorted out haha.

Well, hell. What can I say? Foibles of youth? Grrr.

[Galen]

Golden, on 20 October 2010 - 11:01 PM, said:

Galen, on 20 October 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

I would rather you save that for right now, because this seems like an unavoidable discrepancy that has to be sorted out haha.

Well, hell. What can I say? Foibles of youth? Grrr.

Lol, fair enough.

This may be too early to really know for sure, but what do you think of your relationship with your son?

[Golden]

Galen, on 21 October 2010 - 01:04 AM, said:

This may be too early to really know for sure, but what do you think of your relationship with your son?

Well, parenting is not necessarily easy in general, and I'm not the perfect Earth Mother baking bread and wearing a big pink dress and singing Tra-la-la all the time.


In some ways, my relationship with my son is very good. I mean, he's my son, and I love him endlessly. I find him fascinating--his way of viewing the world constantly surprises me. I think we do better by focusing on activities--going out and doing things together rather than sitting around quietly at home. If we are at home, then I have to provide him lots of fodder to keep him busy. Because if I don't, we start to argue. Or, rather, he starts to argue with me--it's like he turns his mind against me and starts critiquing everything I do, picking fights. He does this with his dad, too, though, but for different reasons.

Aaaaand he needs Si, tons of it, which is very hard for me to give.

I think for a long time I kept believing, "Next year it'll get better ..." and then the following year, "Next year it'll get better ..." and so on. What I find is that if he is having a hard time socially in school, or with Se-related overload (or both--they tend to go hand-in-hand), he will take it out on me in the hours afterward.

I know a mom isn't supposed to say these things, right? Everything is supposed to be all perfecty-perfect, right? It's not, and it's okay. My approach to parenting is to see the big picture of who this child is and to minimize in my mind the daily challenges--to keep in mind the bigger responsibility of supporting him toward becoming a highly functional, self-actualizing adult. I said in the other forum that I have long thought he would need good adult mentors as he gets older, and interestingly, one of the people I have always wanted him to spend more time with is a painter friend of mine who is ISFp. I feel like his father and I are not going to be adequate to meet his needs--and although you could make the case that this is true for any parent-child relationship, in this case I feel more that we lack something crucial that he requires, and that in order for him to get a sense of who he can be as an adult, some other influences will be critical for him.

[typhon]

I dont know about parenting, but I think illusionary relations are usually pretty good; I get along with ESIs rather well. Of course theres the problem of controlling each other's dominant function all the time through the other's seventh function, but that also happens in dual relations except with each others role functions, which is actually a bit more stressful, since the role function is weaker obvuiously. Taking criticism to your first function isnt gonna hurt.

But theres the problem, as Rick writes, that illusionary partners dont seem to find each other "interetsing" I think what he means is interesting or stimulating for discussion. This makes sense since your illusionary's dominant function is your seventh, which you tend to lose interest in. But as Rick also points out they are good for doing things together because they have your activation function as their second.

So I would say Illusionary is like a partial dualization, if semi dual is wothout the activation function, illusionary is without the dual seeking function.

[Golden]

typhon, on 29 October 2010 - 04:42 AM, said:

I dont know about parenting, but I think illusionary relations are usually pretty good; I get along with ESIs rather well. Of course theres the problem of controlling each other's dominant function all the time through the other's seventh function, but that also happens in dual relations except with each others role functions, which is actually a bit more stressful, since the role function is weaker obvuiously. Taking criticism to your first function isnt gonna hurt.

But theres the problem, as Rick writes, that illusionary partners dont seem to find each other "interetsing" I think what he means is interesting or stimulating for discussion. This makes sense since your illusionary's dominant function is your seventh, which you tend to lose interest in. But as Rick also points out they are good for doing things together because they have your activation function as their second.

So I would say Illusionary is like a partial dualization, if semi dual is wothout the activation function, illusionary is without the dual seeking function.

Cool. I guess I can see that. I mean, it certainly makes logical sense. In practice, I think that like with the semi-duality descriptions, I have a sense of going around and around and never making real progress, never achieving the level of understanding I really wish for. At least, that was the case with my ILE ex-boyfriend. With my child, I mainly have had a sense that I'm his mother and that parenting is difficult no matter what.tright

Thinking of my ex, I did find him interesting, and my son, too. BUT the things they find interesting and the things I find interesting overlap minimally. And our way of doing things related to our interests overlaps minimally. That's the limitation for me. Not outright boredom, but some kind of limitation nonetheless.

[typhon]

Golden, on 02 November 2010 - 05:24 AM, said:

typhon, on 29 October 2010 - 04:42 AM, said:

I dont know about parenting, but I think illusionary relations are usually pretty good; I get along with ESIs rather well. Of course theres the problem of controlling each other's dominant function all the time through the other's seventh function, but that also happens in dual relations except with each others role functions, which is actually a bit more stressful, since the role function is weaker obvuiously. Taking criticism to your first function isnt gonna hurt.

But theres the problem, as Rick writes, that illusionary partners dont seem to find each other "interetsing" I think what he means is interesting or stimulating for discussion. This makes sense since your illusionary's dominant function is your seventh, which you tend to lose interest in. But as Rick also points out they are good for doing things together because they have your activation function as their second.

So I would say Illusionary is like a partial dualization, if semi dual is wothout the activation function, illusionary is without the dual seeking function.

Cool. I guess I can see that. I mean, it certainly makes logical sense. In practice, I think that like with the semi-duality descriptions, I have a sense of going around and around and never making real progress, never achieving the level of understanding I really wish for. At least, that was the case with my ILE ex-boyfriend. With my child, I mainly have had a sense that I'm his mother and that parenting is difficult no matter what.tright

Thinking of my ex, I did find him interesting, and my son, too. BUT the things they find interesting and the things I find interesting overlap minimally. And our way of doing things related to our interests overlaps minimally. That's the limitation for me. Not outright boredom, but some kind of limitation nonetheless.

Well, with a certain ESI friend for example I find her very interesting, both physically and personality wise just that when we talk sometimes it feels like we're pushing each other away. Sometimes not. idk .