31 replies to this topic

[Capitalist Pig]

I noticed that Gammas seem to be the least represented Quadra among the English-speaking Socionics community (and more specifically the16types), yet most of these alleged Gammas are self-proclaimed ILIs. What gives?

[goat]

maybe because the stereotype of ILI is a shut in little prick who spends all of their time shitting on people over the internet? Has no social life, and is too detached from anybody to care? The image of Fe PoLR on the16types gives a conveniently "don't have to look closer" excuse for this behavior. And this image covers 50% of the people who would be looking up this stuff on the internet.

the other option for a gamma NT is (again according to the stereotype) Expat. Not meaning this as a slight against Expat, I think that people don't choose ENTj more often because they don't see themselves living up to him.

ESFp stereotype is a drunk sororiety girl (liveandletlive) who is probably too clinically retarded to be able to use an internet. These days, due to the wonders of technology, this type actually does inhabit the web, but she spends all of her time attention whoring on stickam/tinychat.

ISFj stereotype at this point is DJ. Which means that you're a shaven headed prick who's pissed off all the time because he has to live with joy (no offense DJ just offering the image of ISFj that a person would get from reading the 16types).

[Gilly]

Your prognoses strike me as scattered and inaccurate.

I think people "want" to be ILI partly because it's kind of a "I don't give a fuck" type. Weak Fe gets written off by people who dislike the concept of it as a function as simply not caring about social appearances, disregarding others' opinions, etc. Ironically as the PoLR this is true in the strictest conscious sense, but it also constitutes an area of massive weakness for them which means that, in some ways, they care about it, or at least are more affected by its judgments in a negative sense, than most types.

Also Ni is not the easiest function to understand, and is therefore deified by some people, being as it is an Introverted function (I'M UNIQUE AND ALL THAT MATTERS IS MY OPINIONS) and Intuition (I AM SMART AND SEE THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T SEE).

...and what internet-bound male wouldn't a female who is simultaneously interpersonally aggressive, confident, sexually impulsive, and expects a man to be shy but intelligent, yet values Fi and will therefore be theirs for eternity?

Seems obvious to me.

[goat]

Gilly, on 11 October 2010 - 08:03 AM, said:

Your prognoses strike me as scattered and inaccurate.

at least it got you to respond

[Gilly]

lol true

[crispy]

goat, on 11 October 2010 - 05:51 AM, said:

ISFj stereotype at this point is DJ.

The trolling begins.

[goat]

crispy, on 11 October 2010 - 12:17 PM, said:

The trolling begins.

somebody had to break the ice

[Director Abbie]

People don't want to be ILIs. ILIs often wish they were another type. As BG said, they're the most common Gammas online because online is the easiest place to find them.

[Capitalist Pig]

Director Abbie, on 11 October 2010 - 12:39 PM, said:

People don't want to be ILIs. ILIs often wish they were another type.

I doubt that everyone -- and I'm speaking mostly of the newer crowd, though it probably encompasses some older members as well -- who come in claiming to be ILI are actually so. I don't feel like wasting the time or the effort to justify this intuition, though.

[Galen]

Capitalist Pig, on 11 October 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

I doubt that everyone -- and I'm speaking mostly of the newer crowd, though it probably encompasses some older members as well -- who come in claiming to be ILI are actually so. I don't feel like wasting the time or the effort to justify this intuition, though.

I'd think niffweed, polikujm, warlord, and megadoomer act as justification enough.

[Ashton]

glamourama, on 12 October 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

also i think that too many people probably use the two (from what i can see) most-referenced LIEs in this community, Expat and Ashton, as the benchmark/s by which they judge who is an ENTj and who isn't. i'm not trying to slight those two by any means, but if people are using only one or two members as a benchmark for a type, i think there are bound to be mistypings, including not enough people being typed a certain way, just because they may not be similar enough to the benchmarks. obviously there is plenty of diversity among people of the same type.

Yeah I agree with that. The current benchmark for LIE is a bit narrow, which may account for some of the underrepresentation. Though w/ Azeroffs and gobearcats around, that might balance out a bit (hopefully).

[Riddy]

glamourama, on 12 October 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

wish there were more female LIEs... i think there have been a couple possible ones showing up here and there but they never seem to stick around.

I'm confident there are female ENTjs out there, but they are particularly hard to spot because most of us have basically no benchmark to compare against.

As far as why people might want to be an INTp, I think it might also have something to do with "the critic" notion. I figure several people see themselves as misunderstood but helpful critics, and identify with this them in ILI descriptions. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I do think that's a piece of it.

[Gilly]

Ann Coulter is a decent benchmark (at least by VI and general behavior; not so much by political extremism) for LIE:

[Gilly]

Oh and HotForWords, sexy intellectual youtube phenom:









Although she could be Beta rational, not 100% on this one.

[Capitalist Pig]

Marina Orlova is LIE????? Seriously?

[Gilly]

Yeah, dj typed her as such a while ago and I tend to agree. She uses really bad, exaggerated FeSi, but is almost purely focused on TeNi.

[Gilly]

Hmm, she could be EIE. Not sure.

[Gilly]

God this bitch is hypnotic.

[Riddy]

Coulter I have down as an ENTp actually. I'll make an argument later. Maybe.

[Gilly]

K so I'm on board with Coulter as ILE, and I'm leaning Beta Rational for HotForWords, probably EIE 3w2 sx/so.

[ArchonAlarion]

As I am someone who has fallen under this ILI wannabe spell I can say that most of the reasons here have something to do with it, and the rest probably apply to other people.

The larger reason is confusing the 5 fixation with ILI.

[GhostRider]

Why do you assume anyone wants to be ILI? Did you expect to find an amount of people similar to your disposition and didn't meet your expectations? I think what you might be complaining about is that people new to the theory are mistyping themselves and that ILI seems to be a more common mistype among them. It probably has to do with the fact that people looking into psychological theories are usually inquisitive and introverted folk, and the ILI description prematurely makes it sound akin to someone of this nature without accurate knowledge and comparisons of all the other types. Also, you must remember that the ILI type, much like all the Gammas for that matter, are stereotypically known for using Se in an intellectual manner. The betas use Se more for the philosophical sake that they see the world as a place of instinct, emotion, and battle. Gammas recognize this aspect of life and accept it, but realize and value a world that doesn't depend primarily on it. Their efforts focus more on using Se to minimize human focus on aggression and attempt to create a better envisioned world, even if it seems more like intellectual selfishness for receiving the benefits of their efforts before others do/can. Now you may not agree and I would hope so, lest I be doubtful of having an accurate viewpoint, but my point is that despite this aspect being the more salient features of the gammas, a lot of people share a smaller degree of these same psychological traits and can mistake themselves for one thing when not having adequate information to compare themselves to.

Also, it's very important to remember that we are attempting to categorize the billions of people of this planet into 16 categories and still hope to have an overall useful tool that explains behavior and motivations. The fact that this theory sees tests as an inaccurate way to type people also verifies the fact that the theory has not been able to produce an objective method, outside of the scope of a person's subjective knowledge, that can be used to categorize correctly. So it is paramount to understand that any study you partake in regarding socionics is going to unfold a personal view of the relationships of the human beings that surround you. Now that does not mean that the theory is true, but it doesn't mean it is false either because people create their own personalities as much as we can influence their personalities. And People change depending on circumstance and conditions. Fortunately for the usefulness of the theory, people resist change the older they get, and this tends more to make typings predictably accurate.

[stevENTj]

I just ran into a female LIE a few weeks ago, on a business trip. VP and part-owner of her company. Stereotypical 'fat cat' LIE, only female. I think an aunt of mine is also LIE and is pretty much a mirror image of this one I met on the business trip the other week.

Coulter is clearly a gamma NT. If you've ever read one of her books, it just screams with Te and Ni. Acute sense of what happened and when all throughout history and how it all interrelates to the present time. Obviously values Fi more than Fe, heavy use of sarcasm. Just can't see her as an ILE or an Alpha. She's not really a creative type either and isn't coming up with bold new ways of doing things, but rather criticizing (harshly) existing systems, and challenging existing beliefs and supposed consenses. Definitely in Gamma land if you ask me.

And yes, everybody seems to think I'm an LIE. In practice I seem to look and act like one to a lot of people, but at the core I do still believe I'm more ILI.

[Gilly]

I thought she was too, but after watching an interview with her, I saw that she used Fe in a really stereotypically HA fashion, kind of weilding it clumsily but intentionally, like trying to stand on top of a rock rolling downhill r something, lol. She reminds me of Vero in some ways.

[Capitalist Pig]

GhostRider, on 13 October 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

Why do you assume anyone wants to be ILI?

Because types don't exist.

GhostRider, on 13 October 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

Did you expect to find an amount of people similar to your disposition and didn't meet your expectations?

No, that would be a ridiculous expectation.

GhostRider, on 13 October 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

I think what you might be complaining about is that people new to the theory are mistyping themselves and that ILI seems to be a more common mistype among them.

Yeah, something like that.

I sort of agree with some of the rest of that.

[GhostRider]

Capitalist Pig, on 14 October 2010 - 03:34 PM, said:

Because types don't exist.

But good thing the IEs do.

Quote

No, that would be a ridiculous expectation.

I guess so then.

[MegaDoomer]

goat, on 11 October 2010 - 05:51 AM, said:

maybe because the stereotype of ILI is a shut in little prick who spends all of their time shitting on people over the internet? Has no social life, and is too detached from anybody to care? The image of Fe PoLR on the16types gives a conveniently "don't have to look closer" excuse for this behavior. And this image covers 50% of the people who would be looking up this stuff on the internet.

This could really be one of the reasons. Besides that those things you said above fit me quite well, I could easily imagine a IEI pretending that he is ILI because he's in a bad mood or tired/dissapointed of his Fe. But Fe-polr is probably the fact which makes up the 'attraction' for this type. If you are someone who is a loner or even an outcast, you can easily explain all this with your polr and blame your 'god-given' personality, not yourself. This is the easy way to solve your problems, just ignoring or accepting it.

glamourama, on 12 October 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

i've noticed (just because i keep up that self-typings list) there are more people that type themselves as Gamma (not just ILIs) than you might generally think, but they just don't end up posting all that much, and/or don't integrate themselves into the community or leave a huge impression, etc.

Because their group behaviour, they're not much into integration.I believe Gammas watch threads or the forum itself and also post if they're interested, but they might not take much initiative to form new groups or start something new which is community-related.

glamourama, on 12 October 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Galen, on 12 October 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'd think niffweed, polikujm, warlord, and megadoomer act as justification enough.

imo niffweed probably actually is ILI (but i would not use him as a benchmark and don't think anyone should, no matter what type they think he is), polikujm and Warlord i also think might be ILI, and Megadoomer i think is more likely LII or at least alpha NT. i do agree that some people typing themselves ILI are not actually ILI, but i don't see why we should so easily reject the idea of a lot of people actually being ILI, just because some may have mistyped themselves. like i said earlier i think it's NTs in general that get (falsely) overrepresented - but i may be wrong about this since socionics is an NT (esp. alpha NT) domain.

I don't necessarily think the NT club as a whole is overrepresented in the community. Just think about the percentage of people who know about socionics in the first place. It is a complex system and you have to invest quite a lot of time and thinking to understand it. No wonder this is an interesting hobby for many NTs. The question if your examples are actually ILI or not is quite hard to answer. Even if you all are sure about your image of the typical ILI, it might be flawed as well. I don't know much about niffweed and warlord, but I recognized the same indecisiveness about the self-typing in both polikujm and myself. That might points out that we're the same type. ILI and LII seem quite similar, but the difference is important as you all know. (Not only because of the dual - conflictor situation.) They're even in opposing quadras, it shouldn't be so hard to tell them apart.

It would be interesting to know how many LIIs are probably mistyped and are actually ILIs. Is this a mistyping which appears similar frequently in your opinion?

[MegaDoomer]

glamourama, on 18 December 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

i think that could apply to Alphas also, it's the Aristocratic quadras (Beta and Delta) who are more likely do the group/community thing.

I thought it would be mainly connected to Fe/Fi valuing. Delta and Gamma groups tend to split up and getting smaller, whereas Alpha/Beta people try to keep the community/large group together.

glamourama, on 18 December 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

lol now i'm rambling - sorry about that

No, that was quite interesting. And also your self typing list and all the statistics seem to be a nice project. I didn't know there are so many ILIs and LIIs around.

[bullet]

Because crying is cool.