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[discojoe]

β-quadra: Maxim, Hamlet, Tutankhamon, Zhukov







The Logical-sensory introvert - Maxim




Celebrities of this type: Maxim Gorky, Charles Morris Talejran, Caligula, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Joseph Stalin, Martin Luther, Le Corbusier, Anatoly Karpov, Salvador Dali, Toulouse-Lotrac, Pablo Picasso, Andrey Tarkovsky, Goiko Mitich, Alain Delong. The most detailed description of this type – Klim Samgin, the main character in Life of Klim Samgin, by M. Gorky.




(*Charles BRONSON (actor, US) Katherine ZETA-JONES (actress, US), Clint EASTWOOD (actor, US), Boris GRYZLOV (politician, Russia), Slobodan MILOSHEVICH (politician, Yugoslavia), Saparmurat TURKMENBASHI (politician, Turkmenistan), Madeleine Korbel ALBRIGHT (politician, US), Donald RUMSFELD (politician, US), Joseph STALIN (politician, Soviet Union), Harry S. TRUMAN (politician, US), Saddam HUSSEIN (politician, Iraq).*)




Function #1 - subjective logic ():my understanding, my worldview, and my school. A Maxim's motto is: “I understand theworld, therefore I exist”. It is impossible to make them change their mind. The world is the way I understand it. Their understanding is very conservative, crystallized.

When attacked in the area of the first function, a Maxim becomes aggressive.In the area of the first function a person is confident of himself and leans on his own authority. In case of a Maxim this is their 'school', their view of the world, their ideas about the world. “I know how the world was made, who will teach me about heights and the depths. What evidence do you have to show for? I will explain away all your evidence!” If a Maxim runs into undisputable evidence which he can neither explain nor ignore, he (similar to a Robespierre) needs time to fill up the gaps in their belief system, to improve their world view making it complete and consistent from their point of view.He likes to analyze new data and draw independent conclusions, accepting or rejecting certain things.

It is easy to drive a Maxim to aggression, just tell them: “Your teacher has no idea what he is talking about!”Their reaction maybe absolutely inadequate. And since their creative function is physical action, anything within their hand's reach may be hurled at you. I tried talking to a Maxim in the same manner and was nearly hit by a heavy object thrown at me.




Function #-1- objective logic (): the world is the way I see it, everything else I ignore.

Real circumstances can be perceived simply as annoying obstacles. If I study, I simply listen to what a teacher says, and my understanding does not differ from the teacher’s; this is my school. In any case it is a fixed set of ideas about the world, certain standard picture. Sometimes real-world notions like visas, traffic rules, criminal code and other social realities may fall in the zone of ignoring. This may cause 'unexpected' problems, even imprisonment. The society does not care take into consideration neither your unique interpretation of the established law nor your type of information metabolism.




Function #2- objective sensoring (): the zone of risk; the risk might as well be purely physical. Get in his car and you will immediately feel the danger: He drives like a maniac sweeping by just within an inch from the other cars on the road – otherwise it is 'not interesting' enough. A Maximlikes to perform and be watched. As a rule, they are excellent drivers, they crave risk, and thus they get a taste of life. If the person of this type is a professional programmer, just look at his fingers fluttering above the keyboard – you cannot see separate movements – so fast they are. A virtuoso! Paganini! The zone of creativity is the risk zone: he wants to move and work with objects. A Maxim needs physical activity. Many of them became stuntmen, students of marshal art schools, mimes. They admire perfected forms of movement. They like to jump, shoot and drive. Quite often people of this type can be seen on a catwalk. Demonstration of clothes or themselves is their creative area. Sometimes these people master rather calligraphically elaborate handwriting, peculiar gait, and clothing style. Among actors we also find bright representatives of this type: Nikolay Karachentsev, Constantine Raikin, Talgat Nigmattulin.(*Charles BRONSON, Katherine ZETA-JONES, Clint EASTWOOD*)

Another aspect of this creative function - manipulation with objects. A Maximis an ardent collector. These people study the little nuances of form and function of various objects. Small objects fascinate them: stamps, butterflies, labels, netsuke, etc. Thanks to them ancient utensils are preserved, ancient arts are revived. They perfectly remember different nuances, smallest distinctions of form.

A Maxim easily gets his/her bearings in any surroundings. Havingvisited a house just once they remember the layout, arrangement of furniture and appliances. They easily recall small details: features, clothes, etc... A Maximdoes not like his/her belongings being moved or used.




Function #-2- subjective sensoring ():health is in the area standards.This type has unusually high pain threshold.At times they may be masochistic, exhausting themselves physically for a long time in a gym or at the racetrack. A Maxim is able to perfect a difficult trick for hours despite of exhaustion, hunger, cold or heat. A Maxim is conservative in food and sex preferences, they do not seek variety.




Function #3- subjective intuition (): integrity of the inner world is in the problem area. This type escapes a situation that threatens his/her internal integrity. A Maxim would take a job with a low pay, inconvenient in other ways too, if only he has a peace about working there.This type needs a well structured outside world to support the lack of integrity on the inside. Often rigid social institutions, requiring some kind of service, soothe their aching desire to have peace with themselves and others – army, gangs, and religion. The internal world is in seeming peace because he has managed to explain away the external world how he likes it. “It is not me who is speaking, but a supreme force speaks through me, I am only its tool", or "Soldiers do not create karma”. In their search for inner peace they adopt apoint of view: “I am good if it’s not me who lives”. In this case the person turns into an element of a rigid system, as though dissolving in it, turning into a function, living its motto "I am not [present]”. It is an exceptionally protected integral internal situation.




Function #-3- objective intuition (): this is a problem solving area. This type arranges the external situation to secure his/her inner peace. He works hard to set up a stable daily routine, hierarchy of relationships, way of life, work schedule, job functions.

Function #4- objective ethics (): the attitude of people to me, people’s relationships. A Maxim is easily suggested in this sphere. “I want people to care about me. I want to be liked, appreciated and respected”. If people here like me, then this is a good place. A Maxim’s cunning friends often use this trait. When he/she thinks “I am appreciated, trusted, I am coping”, he/she is in danger of being used. In the best-case scenario he will be thanked for his work and dismissed.




A Maximoften acts like an introvert. He/she does not speak much. Only a few representatives of this type like to talk. Their public speech is short, logical and well structured.




People of all IM types are hypochondriacal in the area of the fourth function. There are rigid programs in the area of the fourth function; others or the person him/herself downloads them.




A Maximis hypochondriacal, i.e. suspicious in his/her relationships. People can influence a Maxim rather effectively by exploiting this suspiciousness. Sometimes it is enough to tell a Maxim that Mr. So-and-so does not like him/her, then she/he begins to “pick up” the signs of insincerity in Mr. So-and-so … suspicion creeps in. It is easy to infuse doubts through the fourth function; here the person is always hypochondriacal. In this area he/she does not trust him/herself and becomes dependent on opinions of other people, often sees the reality through the eyes of other people.

Taken to the extreme this quality turns into maniacal suspiciousness. Joseph Stalin’s paranoid suspiciousnessthrew the whole country into the abyss of suspicion and fear.

If this type fails to find a friendly company with a good guaranteed attitude, they often search for an individual way of realization where they do not depend on other people’s attitudes.




Function #-4- subject ethics (): my attitude to people is the zone of fears. It is impossible to hear this type confessing their love or any other feeling.He will sooner do something than talk: he will take a girl out, give her flowers or jewellery, but he will not talk about his feelings. In situations when expression of feelings is necessary, a Maxim is tense, it seems his mind is some place else. His opinion he expressesimpersonally or indirectly, but clearly. Often he runs into communication problems because most types need verbal communication to understand another person, otherwise they just do not see what you see. The unsaid does not count. I appreciate the flowers you gave me and the romantic dinners you took me to! But I need to hear what you think and feel about me!

Why people of this type often join criminal agencies (mercenary units or other social clubs with rigid structure)? There might be two reasons for this: “Here I feel comfortable, I accept the hierarchy and the principles of the agency” and “I am valued and respected here, so this place is good” (positive feedback according to the fourth function). Besides, here he has an outlet for his love for manipulations with objects (realization of the creative function). The logic of the objective world is ignored (in this case it can be the law, the criminal code, or traffic rules). He is seeking for inner peace and consistency. Maxim's peculiar creativity combined with disobedience to the law and his desire to be in “good” company paves a way for his criminal future.

Look, this type is easy to recognize, we all often run into them.

[discojoe]

The Ethical-intuitive extrovert – a Hamlet




Celebrities of this type: William Shakespeare's Hamlet, Octavian August, Nero, Johan Wolfgang Goethe, Adolph Hitler, Leon Trotsky, Dolores Ibarruri, Fidel Castro, Raphael Santi, Michaelous Chourleonis, Ivan Pavlov, Sergey Vavilov, Jerome K Jerome, Vsevolod Meyerhold, Jean Mare, Lawrence Oliver, Innokenty Smoktunovsky, Paul Kadochnikov, Sergey Bondarchuk, Vladimir Zhirinovsky.




(*Asia ARGENTO (actress, Italy), Annette BENING (actress, US), Melanie GRIFFITH (actress, US), Irene JACOB (actress, France), Nicole KIDMAN (actress, Australia - US), Anastasia KINSKY (actress, Germany - US), David COPPERFIELD (illusionist, US), Penelope CRUZ (actress, Spain - US), George MICHAEL (singer, Greece - US), Julia ORMOND (actress, US), Mickey ROURKE (actor, US), Audrey TAUTOU (actress, France), Myelin FARMER (singer, Canada), Audrey HAPBURNE (actress, UK), Charles Spencer CHAPLIN (actor, UK - US - Switzerland), Friedrich NIETZSCHE (philosopher, Germany, XIX century), Friedrich HOELDERLIN (poet, Germany, XIX century), Johan Wolfgang GOETHE (poet and politician, Germany, XVIII century), Edward LIMONOFF (writer and anarchist politician, US - France - Russia), Thomas MANN (writer, Germany), Edgar Allan POE (writer, US, XIX century), Edward RADZINSKY (writer and historian, Russia), Marina TSVETAYEVA (poet, Russia), George BUSH Jr. (politician, US), Josef GOEBBELS (politician, Germany), Ernesto GUEVARA (politician, Cuba), Adolph HITLER (politician, Germany), Muamar GADHAFI (politician, Libya), Osama Bin LADEN (politician, Saudi Arabia), Ronald W. REAGAN (politician, US), Francisco FRANCO y BAHAMONDE (politician, Spain), Nicolai CEAUSHESCU (politician, Romania).*)

Function #1- objective ethics (): a Hamlet's zone of confidence is external relationships. This type does not have any problems in this sphere as a rule. Stability of relationships is important. If stability of current relationships is shaken it may cause a strong emotional reaction, even aggression. A Hamlet belongs to the aristocratic quadra, and in his/her life there are less confidents, than, for example, in a Hugo's life. Their circle of close friends is very small.

A Hamlet deprived of the opportunity to be on stage – in a broad meaning of this word - not only as an actor, but also asa teacher or a leader; when he is deprived of the opportunity to be in public with people looking at him or up to him – he feels devastated. Then both the first and the second (creative) functions are ruined. “If there are no relationships, then I am not needed, I do not exist.” He needs relationships - whether they are good or bad – they need to be there. This type craves relationships with employees and bosses, friends and enemies, customers and business partners; most of all in life he desires audience. Any relationships confirm to me that I exist in this world.




Function #-1- subjective ethics (): negative values, "bad things". A Hamlet's attitude to people is not important in his/her own eyes; they put other people’s attitude higher than their own. Their relationships with other people always take the first place. 'My attitude to people' is somewhere in the background, often hidden even from myself. He is focused on his relationships more than on his attitude, which basically has no value to him and so he keeps it to himself. He can talk about his feelings and emotions. A Hamlet can easily express his feelings and emotions through acting as if on stage, while hiding his attitude well – unlike, for example, a Napoleon or a Huxley who express their attitudes through their creative second function. It is easier for a Hamlet to wear a mask.




Function #2- subjective intuition (): people of this type are good actors. Their creative function allows them to easily manipulate in the area of the inner integrity. They easily change their images, one after another… Thus they discover the world through their creative function. Everyone subconsciously searches for an occupation satisfying the needs of the IM type to the maximum. When working in a theater college, I wandered what IM types prevailed among the actors. It turned out that theMaxims and the Hamletsconstituted 40 % of all the students there. A Hamlet's creative function, the ability to play a vivid role of different characters, is an ideal skill for a professional actor.

In the clinical psychology this type is known as hysteroid. When an actor goes into a controlled hysterics on stage it may look good. The actor is writhing in hysterics, but falls precisely in an armchair, fixing her blouse… The integrity of the inner world supports a Hamlet’s integrity of his/her self-image. In this area of his creativity he easily goes in and out of the certain image and moves on to another.

When a Don Quixote says, “I understand”, a Hamlet says, “I am in.” A Hamlet has to live the character, he does it with ease.Things that are beyond theother types seem routine toa Hamlet with his peculiar behavior, psychological space, his creative function, and boundaries where this type exists.

Many ardent tribunes were representatives of this type; they could speak for hours with feverish drive and fiery eloquence: Lev Trotsky, Adolph Hitler, Fidel Castro. Among modern politicians, perhaps, only Vladimir Zhirinovsky is a glaring example of this type. He is a remarkable actor, too! Remember some of his controlled hysterics on TV? He does it consciously, and the parliament is his stage. The main thing is the presence of audience. The actor calms down immediately after the performance, but people in the audiencecontinue to shake and shiver for a long time.

There are only a few actors who can play different character types. A Hamleteasily turns into aBalzacor a Napoleon on stage, the actors of this type have unusually wide spectrum of roles. Many good actors belong to this type: Innokenty Smoktunovsky, Sergey Bondarchuk, Jean Mare.

Speaking of theatre, it is easy to see that a good director asks those actors to play on stage whose type coincides with the type of the character – that if the character has a type, there are plays with indefinite character types, and then it is an impersonal image that lacks life, absolutely not adequate to reality.




Function #-2- objective intuition (): the zone of standards, norms. There should be a schedule, a routine, a script. The gun should fire in the fifth act. The husband should come home on time; the whole family ought to go on a pick-nick on Sunday. A Hamlet accepts established routines and does not express creativity in this area. A Hamlet follows the schedule; maybe he does it without great enthusiasm, but still does. Sometimes people of this type live according to a schedule that does not suits them very well, however, they do not question the norms established by society. Having gotteninto a routine, they tend to stay in it even despite essential changes of circumstances.




Function #3- objective sensoring (): my appearance, my skill, my actions, power, influence, money, my image. As a rule, a Hamlet dresses a little bit extravagantly, as if for a show. This type loves bright colors, detail, unusual accessories, etc. They always have an individual style. “How do I look?" and "What am I able to do”- these are the principles their self-esteem is based onaccording to the third function. In a sense this is a simplification of the situation in favor of clarity: here I should have exact knowledge. Each representative of this type has a set of skills (remember, prince Hamlet was the best fencer in the Danish kingdom). A Hamletenjoys demonstrating his skills, flaunting while getting a positive feedback and support. If remodeling is that type of a skill then A Hamlet will show that he can do it better than anyone. But if a particular skill is not in their area of self-esteem then they would need to put extra efforts into a project, it is possible they might need some supernatural power to do a project




In a position of a leader a Hamlet as a rule adheres to a rigid authoritative style of management, emphasizing social hierarchy of relationships. In case of a conflict he/she is not prone to flexibility and compromise. A Hamletworks hard on the corporative image, sometimes the image considerably misrepresents the current company. A Hamlet's wants to be a part of a sound businesswith good income. This is one of the few types who are able to make good money on image. It is important that aHamlet has an opportunity to work with money or other material assets.




Function #-3- subjective sensoring (): problem-solving area. If I am not able to do something, then I need to work on my health to be able to do that.I need to work out, practice, and strengthen the body. A Hamlet pays close attention to health when problems arise. And the problems are of two kinds: either I am not able to do something, or the body does not meet my standards and is inadequate to my image of "good". However, a Hamlet does not limit his efforts to physical exercising. I know the Hamlets who use a lot of medication, incredible quantities of pills and so on. It is not necessarily true about all of them, but some of them do that.




Function #4(suggestible) - subjective logic (): a good place is where I understand everything. A Hamletmay accept things because they sound logical. A Hamlet and a Hugo are the two types who enjoy the most attending lectures, meetings, discussions, etc. (see description of a Hugo). The key thing hereis that they need a structure and they need to be able to understand what’s going on.They accept other people’s explanation of how everything works and what is right and wrong. A good place is the place where I understand everything, where things have been explained to me and I understood. A Hamlet is open for outside influences through explanations.




Function #-4- objective logic (): the zone of fears. “To be or not to be?” – this isaHamlet’s classical question. Alas, it is necessary to make a decision! What is going to happen after I make a decision? Nobody knows, and this is frightening... When a choice is made there is freedom for creativity. It is a purely a hamletian problem – the fear of realization, of definiteness, irreversibility of a made decision. Even if it is clear that it is absolutely necessary to move (to put things in order; to make a legal implementation), but somehow there is never enough time.

A Hamlethas to make efforts to feel more or less confidently in the area where decision-making is a necessity. A Hamlet never puts other people's things in order and hardly ever organizes his/her own belongings.

NB! People of this type are susceptible to illness in the upper air passages.

[discojoe]

The intuitive - ethical introvert - Tutankhamon




Celebrities of this type:Tutankhamon, Jean Jacques ROUSSEAU, Tiberius, Ivan Bunin, Jury Gagarin, Antoine de Saint-Exupéri, Federico Garcia Lorca, Marcello Mastroianni, Audrey Hepburn, Eugeny Matveev, Bulat Okudjava. Peculiar smile is characteristic of people of this type, the one you could see on the Tutankhamon mask.




(*Hugh GRANT (actor, US), Liza KUDROW (actress, US), Edward NORTON (actor, US), Chulpan KHAMATOVA (actress, Russia), Jennifer ANISTON (actress, US), Frederic CHOPIN (composer, Poland - France, XIX century), Friedrich Wilhelm SCHELLING (philosopher, Germany, XIX century), Ray BRADBURY (writer, US), Romain HARY (writer, FRANCE, also known as Emile AJART), Nikolai GOGOL (writer and philosopher, Russia), Marceilles PROUST (writer, France), Paul CELAN (German poet, lived in Romania and France), Nikolai BUKHARIN (politician, Soviet Union), Laura BUSH (president's wife, US), Georgi MALENKOV (politician, Soviet Union), Nikolai RYZHKOV (politician, Soviet Union).*)




Function #1- subject intuition ():integrity of inner world is in the zone of confidence. A Tutankhamon’s inner integrity is a constant and absolute lack of contradictions on the inside. It is frequently shownin their conversations. A Tutankhamon, the aristocrat, may behave differently with different people. ATutankhamon's ideas of 'proper' relationships are conservative and often people do not understand his norms and approaches. This type always has well thought through principles of life. In a sense a Tutankhamon isa "conservative romantic".Unlike a Dumas, he is constantly in a state of introspective meditation.Just like aBalzac, more than other types, he is capable of introspection.When the world around him is pressing in, a Tutankhamon may withdraw from people for long periods of time, going deeper within himself, within hissoul,and does not want to think rationally.

A person of this type stays in the background and feels the subtle rhythm of time. Imperturbability, the ability to be present without being noticed makes them good professional bodyguards. Hollywood actors Kevin Kostner, Pierce Brosnan, Steven Seagull are striking examples of this type.




Function #-1- objective intuition (): ignoring the integrity of the world. Quite often people of this type just drop out of the picture, take themselves out of the heat of the circumstances. At a party you may hear somebody say: “Where is she? I just saw her a minute ago.” They talk about a Tutankhamon. She is phantom lost somewhere in the inner depths. On the contrary a Don Quixotemay completely lose himself in the external circumstances: intense relationships help him to forget about his problems! A Tutankhamon withdraws within herself and lets the world fade away.




Function #2– objective ethics ():this is the area of creativity – people's relationships, their attitude to me. Her creative function is manipulation with relationships but it does not mean that she is an intriguer. She easily figures out what’s up with these people. A Tutankhamon has a gift of influencing relationships and turning them for her own benefit through emotional attack.She does it from the outside of a situation. She lightly touches on certain issues, makes subtle statements and there you go! There is a supposition that a Tutankhamon is even a subtler manipulator than a Dumas. I failed to catch a Tutankhamon in the act. More field observations need to be done in this area.

On the other hand, I know that a Tutankhamon does not have problems with relationships; she is always ready to compromise, be flexiblein order to get what she wants.She may provoke certain actions (I observed her doing that so many times) - but I have not been able to catch her in the act of doing it.

A Tutankhamon can be the master organizer, creating and structuring large groups of people. She is able to adjust and maintain relationships within a group and create productive atmosphere. As a leader she adheres to democratic style of management as a rule.




Function #-2– subjective ethics (): the zone of standards. A Tutankhamonavoids situations where she needs to express her personal attitude, for example, talking about her feelings of love. She finds it easier talking about objective circumstances and how things ought to be, but her own attitude is already the way it ought to be.She has conventional ways of expressing her sincere (even positive) feelings.Her rich inner life escapes words.




Function #3– subjective logic (): the principle of self-esteem is based on the ability to understand. "If I understand correctly, then I am a good person". A person tries to simplify the situation according to this function. Simplification in this case is used as an effective means of protection. A Tutankhamon builds a negative defense by denying any uncertain facts. The fear of incompetence narrows down her opportunities to apply her knowledge.A Tutankhamon builds a positive defensethrough generalizing abstract theories;they are aimed at explaining to her all the phenomena in the society and nature.

Function #-3– objective logic ():the problem here is 'to understand' things, it is possible to solve the problem by getting 'to know' things. The type wants to solve problems through collecting objective data, consulting experts, applying the latest research results, getting new reliable information. A Tutankhamon tries to solve her problems by changing her external circumstances.




Function #4– objective sensoring (): suggestible function. Activity, motion. “Others ought to tell me what I should do. A good place is the place where there is action, movement, where work gets done". There are times when she finds herselfon her way some place or sitting by a campfire. It is as if she was "inserted" in unplanned circumstances. She could not resist the external influence. “They took me with them, so I went along. I have no will of my own.”This type should be attentive to their choices.Do these things correspond to the goals of my life?Will they take me there where I want to be? ATutankhamonmay seek to escape later when she realizesthat it is not where she wants to be.It is too late though; people reap what they sow.On the one hand she is in slavery to other people, and on the other hand she is a skilled manipulator of the external relationships.When a Tutankhamon realizes what she is reaping, instead of repenting she resorts to harassing the people who got her involved and looks for ways to get out of the mess, produced by her irresponsibility, using the strengths of her type.




Function #-4– subjective sensing ():Feelings and health are in the area. She has her sensory comfort in this area; she does not want to see doctors, she is in denial of her health condition(“I plough till I drop dead in my furrow”).She would rather endure unpleasant sensations, even strong pains, than seek help.Here a Tutankhamon seems to imitate his complementary type, a Zhukov, but he is too low on energy. This type runs the risk of chronic subtle diseases.

[discojoe]

The Sensory-logical extrovert - Zhukov




Celebrities of this type: George Zhukov, Sergey Korolev, Sergey Kirov, Valery Chkalov, Oliver Cromwell, Boris Yeltsin, Alexander Lebed, Leon Gumilev, Richard Wagner, Cyril Lavrov, George Sand, Anna Ahmatova, Marina Tsvetaeva, Alexandra Kollontay, Isidora Duncan, Alisa Friendlich, Jane Fonda.




(*Richard BURTON (actor, US), Marlon BRANDO (actor, US), Michael DOUGLAS (actor, US), Takeshi KITANO (actor, Japan), Russell CROWE (actor, US), MADONNA (singer, US), Al PACINO (actor, US), Sharon STONE (actress, US), Rutger HAUER (actor, US), Anthony HOPKINS (actor, US), Richard WAGNER (composer, Germany, XIX century), Galina VISHNEVSKAYA (opera singer, Russia - US), Martin LUTHER (church reformer, Germany, XVI century), Lavrenty BERIA (politician, Soviet Union), Napoleon BUONAPARTE (monarch, France, XIX century), Hermann GOERING (politician, Germany, 3rd Reich), Hillary R. CLINTON (politician, US), Vladimir LENIN (politician, Soviet Union), Peter I (monarch, Russia), Winston CHURCHILL (politician, UK).*)




Function #1- objective sensoring (): the principle of existence: “I am active, therefore I exist”. His life’s principles are constancy of the external form, confidence in his appearance and actions. Those who criticize a Zhukov's actions may experience his aggression. They are workaholics in the full sense of the word.A Zhukov just can’t sit still. They are active even when they should be still in the given circumstances. Socionists have a joke: "can a Zhukov be quiet for 10 minutes in a company of friends? If he is quiet then he is either mute, or sick, or dead…"

A working Zhukov gives all of himself to a business never sparing his energy. It is an authoritative, strong-willed type, able to make others submit; also he can obey when working in rigid structures (army service, etc.). The habit oftaking responsibility upon themselves makes them irreplaceable middle-level managers — they rarely make it to the top due to their excessive straightforwardness. But notice, that just like a Don Quixote, they (Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher) step forward during the periods of real danger in the history of humankind.

A Zhukov is reliable. If there is no movement, no activity going on, they will find it or create it; he is a magnet for situations where he is needed. These people constitutea rather strong social type.

Two people of this type (just like two Napoleons)hardly ever get along when life brings them together.It is normal because they are both leaders.Only relationships within the boundaries of a strictly defined hierarchy (army, etc.) or in a master - disciple type of relationship they may get along a little better for a period of time.




Function #-1– subjective sensoring ():health is in the area of ignoring. A Zhukov has a "farmer's attitude" in health issues: "I shall plough until I drop dead in my furrow." When he does get sick having spent all his strength in feverish activity) he allows others to take care of them. Only when they are burnt out they might agree to take some time off at a resort or a hospital. People of this type should remember this because people are not indestructible; they are not sources of endless energy. However, they should not stay away from work completely. A Zhukov needs to learn to control this area of life. Not all of them are capable of doing that.

A Zhukov is not a picky eater: he expects food to be plentiful and filling, it should not be some choice food, but it should be esthetically pleasing.

Function #2- subjective logic (): his since for dialectics is in the creative area, he is able to consider an object, a situation, an event from several points of view, he can explain any phenomenon in several different ways. A Zhukov is not conservative here.

A Don Quixote having generated an idea hardly ever implements it in real life. A Zhukov, having the same creative function, comes up with an idea and then brings it about, i.e. a Zhukov gives it a chance to live. For example, Sergei Korolev (a Zhukov) and Konstantin Tsiolkovsky (a Don Quixote) – they both dreamed to see man in space. Korolev dared to finish the project in completely fantastic, inhuman conditions; and he became in his own way happy.




Function #-2 - objective logic (): the logic of the external world is in the zone of standards. This type picks out the laws that they follow automatically, without a hint of creativity. In this area a Zhukov does not like to waste time on decision-making.




Function #3- objective ethics (): a Zhukov’s principle of self-esteme is as follows: “People need me, therefore I am good”. Other people’s assessment of him is the basis of his good or bad attitude to himself. It is very important: when, in what situations the person gets positive feedback through the third function. If a Zhukov is needed, he gets constant 'refills' of energy. In his relationships he is focused on himself: “I the hub of the universe.” Incidentally these two types (a Don Quixote and a Zhukov) have personal and public interests in consent. A Zhukov's cunning "friends" frequently use this trait for their purposes.

A Zhukov has to be needed ("important"); otherwise he gets sick and spends all of his colossal energy on medical treatment, seriously aggravating the situation.




Function #-3- subjective ethics (): the problem is solved when he changes his attitude to an object or a person. It is important to have clarity and definiteness. When a Don Quixote faces a conflict in a relationship; he tries to smooth it out. A Zhukov in similar circumstances is more determined. It is easier for him to avoid the difficult person than to live with the tension of the uncertainty. Both kinds of behavior are inadequate, however, he gets the result, which comforts him: the situation becomes simpler in both cases; he pushes the problem out of his life. A Zhukov has a radical approach to the problem: if there is no relationship then there is no problem.

Function #4- subjective intuition (): “I want the world to be in harmony and beautiful. I want to feel good so do something”. A Zhukov’s thirst for inner peace is the biggest than any others’. He does not know how to manage his own feelings. He needs external influence to have a change of mood. Therefore he resorts to common means of changing the mood: alcohol, drugs. Some of them get into verbal fights. This is a very interesting channel of suggestion because this type is usually at the top and we run into them in burocratic structures. They are difficult to be around because they have hard time managing their moods and emotions, they are unpredictable.

Function #-4 - objective intuition (): here he has the fear of integrity of external situation. Integrity of circumstances is subconsciously rejected. He detests situations when everything is known from beginning to end. A Zhukov has a peculiar vision of time. “What do you mean I have to follow a schedule? What if I feel like working around the clock? Why are you putting me in the rigid frames of a schedule? I do not care about your office hours. If I feel like working, I will keep work”. It is not a surprise that the military talent of marshal Zhukov revealed itself to its fullest in circumstances where the course of events changed abruptly, in situations of a break-through, or an attack, where emergency decisions, deviance from the ordinary schedule, abrupt changes in tactics were necessary. A Zhukov can simultaneously supervise (and be involved in) several situations at the same time, switching from one to another at a snap.

[crispy]

Where you find these? They got some interesting infos. You got the other 12?

[sarinana]

I do not fit this EIE description at all. But I do fit SLEs description... weird. “I am active, therefore I exist”

[Gilly]

crispy, on 10 October 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:

Where you find these? They got some interesting infos. You got the other 12?

Yes

Moar plz

[silverchris9]

sarinana, on 11 October 2010 - 02:51 AM, said:

I do not fit this EIE description at all. But I do fit SLEs description... weird. “I am active, therefore I exist”

I suspect that you are misreading the descriptions slightly.


I identify to some degree but these descriptions don't really shed new light on anything. The ILE = Don Quixote is based on a radical misunderstanding of that novel though. The Don's world is very much an interior one projected out, rather than an outer world accepted in. The only useful part was when it talked about how SLEs need to feel needed. I find that accurate, and I find that it has a lot to do with SLE's behavior in certain interpersonal relationships.

On another note, isn't it funny how betas say, "Gosh, LSEs would make great middle managers, but they're not fit for the boardroom," and deltas say, "Gosh, SLEs would make great middle managers, but they're not fit for the boardroom." Just another way that socionics reminds us that nothing is objective.

[Ashton]

silverchris9, on 11 October 2010 - 08:57 AM, said:

The only useful part was when it talked about how SLEs need to feel needed. I find that accurate, and I find that it has a lot to do with SLE's behavior in certain interpersonal relationships.

SLEs are far more emo and sensitive than they've typically given credit for.

Quote

On another note, isn't it funny how betas say, "Gosh, LSEs would make great middle managers, but they're not fit for the boardroom," and deltas say, "Gosh, SLEs would make great middle managers, but they're not fit for the boardroom." Just another way that socionics reminds us that nothing is objective.

Hah. Too true.

[jessica129]

Even though they're roughly translated, these are some of the best descriptions I've come across.

[Gilly]

jessica129, on 13 October 2010 - 12:04 AM, said:

Even though they're roughly translated, these are some of the best descriptions I've come across.

Yeah they are solid. IMO Ashton is dead on about SLEs, lol; I think all Betas have a pretty strong internal need, whether it is manifested in their beliefs about themselves or not, to feel like they belong, to "be accepted" in some way (this can be true of any type, of course, but with Fe values and Aristocracy it's pretty integral to Beta); it's probably the only quadra where you can consistently find members of each type with a primary heart triad fixation in Enneagram.

[Gilly]

But LSEs ARE the ultimate middle managers. They just aren't strategic enough to run shit like we do

"Useful idiots," a la Lenin.

[Nick]

All pretty accurate imo. One noticeable thing, is the attribution of 'schedules' to Ne. I think it makes some sense, from a beta pov, that Ne/Si would seem more "structured" in ways (well, delta anyway), as the SeTi structure is just an implicit guide that allows for improvisation. This also has to do with how Ne will divide up time based on perceived relevance, and allow it to unfold accordingly; what is relevant to Ni, is the way that something will unfold, which is why Se segments active states.

[silverchris9]

Nick, on 13 October 2010 - 10:57 AM, said:

All pretty accurate imo. One noticeable thing, is the attribution of 'schedules' to Ne. I think it makes some sense, from a beta pov, that Ne/Si would seem more "structured" in ways (well, delta anyway), as the SeTi structure is just an implicit guide that allows for improvisation. This also has to do with how Ne will divide up time based on perceived relevance, and allow it to unfold accordingly; what is relevant to Ni, is the way that something will unfold, which is why Se segments active states.

Right. Especially for SLEs. For both IEIs and SLEs, Ti serves primarily an organizing function. It answers the question, "how can I think about this so that I can do further work on it?" either through Se (active and external work on a situation) or Ni ('passive' and internal work on an idea, or something that exists in the internal world).

[poli]

I don't completely understand where I fit into the Ne description at the beginning (like schedules and timelines), by comparison it works, but yeah the ILE part fit me 100%, along with the ILE reinin dichotomies. I agree with Jessica, these are some good descriptions. I'm slightly curious where this translated book came from, who did it. Doesn't matter.

[Gilly]

Ne compartmentalizes time, while Si allows experience to unfold; Se compartmentalizes experience, while Ni allows time to unfold.

This is one of the big issues with me and my Delta parents: they always want to make plans for small family events like a week ahead, big things maybe years. This bothers the fuck out of me because I don't feel like I can commit to these kinds of things without feeling like I'll be fitting a square peg in a round hole when the time comes to make good on the perceived "obligation," and whether or not I will actually enjoy it is completely arbitrary with regards to my initial feelings about whether or not I think it's a "good thing to do" or what I felt about it at the time I made the commitment. I will usually be able to find something to enjoy, but I ALWAYS drag my feet when people ask me to make long term commitments to some small isolated thing in the future. Now, if it's about making a commitment to a long-term course of action, for example committing myself to a project, choosing to go to school, etc, then I can sort of adjust my internal timeline actively to integrate it into my broader sense of what my days will be like, what I will accomplish in the next, years, etc, which I have no problem doing. It's easier for me to commit to something that will take up more of my time consistently, rather than something that is an isolated event, because my momentary moods are something I am a bit detached from and feel uncomfortable "molding," manipulated if I am asked to make them comply with circumstances (although my VERY immediate moods are not necessarily stable; I love getting up on a total whim, out of nowhere, and doing something totally random), whereas my long-term, more salient outlook is actually something I enjoy shifting, because it helps me feel like life isn't this droll, stagnant, day-in-day out wearisome toil, and that there are different "modes" of life for me to experience; something like a vacation or day trip just feels disruptive to these longer emotional rhythms. Internal dynamic fields - "Integrity of the evolution of the internal situation" vs. internal static objects - "malleability of the internal immediate internal situation" and external dynamic fields "integrity of the evolution of the external situation" vs. external static objects "malleability of the immediate external situation."

[KeroZen]

Quote

There is a supposition that a Tutankhamon is even a subtler manipulator than a Dumas. I failed to catch a Tutankhamon in the act

Teehee! You can't catch us we are stealthy when using our "shadow counselor" skills....when you realize it's already too late, you only see the consequences!

Seeds were sown a long time ago with carefully chosen words and emotional impulses, and we just wait until the situation unfolds because we are usually very patient...

[guy123]

very cool descriptions!

[silverchris9]

KeroZen, on 22 November 2010 - 06:32 AM, said:

Quote

There is a supposition that a Tutankhamon is even a subtler manipulator than a Dumas. I failed to catch a Tutankhamon in the act

Teehee! You can't catch us we are stealthy when using our "shadow counselor" skills....when you realize it's already too late, you only see the consequences!

Seeds were sown a long time ago with carefully chosen words and emotional impulses, and we just wait until the situation unfolds because we are usually very patient...

It's so bizarre to me how I actually do that. Even more bizarre is how often it works, lol.