19 replies to this topic

[Ajax]

Contrary to popular opinion I actually think beta is the most non social of all quadras, yes I do believe this. Sure there are ENFj-Ni and ESTps who are quite outgoing and INFps who like a good party. However, I think it is more common to find INFps who think they don't fit in anywhere and ESTps who are shadowy and more in the background and ENFjs who are very dark and into themselves because they are too weird/different for most people. I think almost all ENFj entertainers and public figures are people who are rarely seen in the spotlight. It is hard to think of a famous beta celebrity who is frequently in the news or seen out on the town partying. Then some ISTjs are just downright not into socializing and get bored if they try to do it.

beta is in general is a rather dark quadra full of goth like people and those who dislike bright things and bright lights. I think Si quadra types are more into brightness and are more outgoing. Again, I think people forget that a Fe is one of the "internal" functions and see it as something to do with loudness and outwardness and mistake the atmosphere, alive-ness and energy that exists in alpha as similar to that which exists in beta when it isn't.

Am I crazy or might this be a little true?

[Ashton]

I'm pretty non-social too. There are times when I get more social, and then I get dissapointed when I remember again how dumb most people are. I dunno. I prefer to stick to myself and a few people I know that are worth hanging out with. If I knew more cool people, I'd be a lot more social. But they're hard to find. Most people are just kind of... dull, boring, diluted, limited, or neurotic. And do nothing that's all that entertaining and have nothing interesting to talk about.

[Capitalist Pig]

Try not to confuse introversion too much with the quality of being socially withdrawn, because withdrawal can be a symptom of pathology (e.g., clinical depression) that any type can experience in the course of their lifetime.

[heath]

beta teens are always dressed up in the latest rock fashions from what i've noticed.

[Ajax]

cogsci, on Feb 12 2008, 06:31 PM, said:

Try not to confuse introversion too much with the quality of being socially withdrawn, because withdrawal can be a symptom of pathology (e.g., clinical depression) that any type can experience in the course of their lifetime.

I see a lot of quite "normal" betas being socially aloof, like they don't really fit in anywhere except with other betas. Even the ENFj-Ni who I think are the most outgoing type in beta can seem to put on a big "show" for others but then report after doing it they felt like they were all alone and did not connect with anyone. It could be the natural personality or some kind of pathology like depression though. To be honest most intuitives usually seem depressed or something else to me anyway.
INFps strangely seem like the most consistently sociable followed by ESTps.

[Ajax]

heath, on Feb 14 2008, 02:06 AM, said:

beta teens are always dressed up in the latest rock fashions from what i've noticed.

I had a rock chick clothes period but I have gone off that now. I am into 1920s style elegance for now, but I doubt this period will last that long.

today I realised that this "elegant" style that I am into right now (but moving away from a little)is rather like Scarlett Johansson's way of dressing. I wonder if it is an ENFj thing even a little, in terms of like emotionally feeling a connection to a certain period and then unconsciously dress a bit like the people in that period did. It is crazy as hell I know; I also realised today that at least two other ENFjs I know of does this type of thing too.

[heath]

interesting.

however, i'd like to address an issue that has been pressing me recently concerning the perception of type ENFj on this board. It seems that there is some misconception that ENFjs are all movers and shakers and that there aren't any dumb inept girls into this type category. I disagree readily, for i have found many ENFj whose only capacity for mobilization of others is limited to matters concerning ass fat tucked into jeans.

thank you for your time.

[Ajax]

heath, on Feb 14 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

interesting.

however, i'd like to address an issue that has been pressing me recently concerning the perception of type ENFj on this board. It seems that there is some misconception that ENFjs are all movers and shakers and that there aren't any dumb inept girls into this type category. I disagree readily, for i have found many ENFj whose only capacity for mobilization of others is limited to matters concerning ass fat tucked into jeans.

thank you for your time.

I strongly believe that the matter of ass fat tucked in jeans is extremely important especially for world peace and the whole progress of civilization thingy. All girls including those not of the ENFj type find this to be an issue of great interest. In fact, all straight guys have their energies invested in this issue too you can understand... right? The whole process which could lead to the destruction of a whole planet such as earth from the ass fat issue goes like this:

1. Girls' ass fat cannot fit into their jeans due mainly to anorexia or over-indulgence.
2. Guys have no way of really examining how little or how much ass fat a girl has because as you well know jeans are the only garments which tend to fully show off the ass.
3. As the ass is so important to sexual attraction and indeed the act of sex itself in some cases but the girls asses cannot fit into the jeans, the guys all become homosexuals.
4. As the guys are now all homosexuals, hetrosexual mating stops.
5. No new human life forms are created, earth grinds to a halt and civilization as we now know it perishes.
6. The End for all of us (including you heath).

Any truly smart person can see that due to all this it can easily be seen why the issue of ass fat is such a point of mobilization for ENFjs everywhere. I am sure even you heath can now see based on the arguments that I have outlined here how vital this whole issue is.
I believe only an ENFj could so simply connect the dots so that it matches up with your particular type of comprehension system wouldn't you agree?

[Ajax]

Oh, but wait! I forget to factor in the lesbians. They really could turn out to be humanity's last hope to make it. All they have to do is put some guy (know of anyone who might be interested heath?) in a little cage, fed him water and bread regularly and "milk" him daily so that procreation may continue. Hopefully he will not be some stuck up, anal, dumb guy (who misguidedly thinks he is clever) and whose genes will therefore be of poor quality and cause humanity's IQ points to drop by approximately twenty points with each successive generation.

[Capitalist Pig]

Ajax, on Feb 13 2008, 09:50 PM, said:

I see a lot of quite "normal" betas being socially aloof, like they don't really fit in anywhere except with other betas. Even the ENFj-Ni who I think are the most outgoing type in beta can seem to put on a big "show" for others but then report after doing it they felt like they were all alone and did not connect with anyone. It could be the natural personality or some kind of pathology like depression though. To be honest most intuitives usually seem depressed or something else to me anyway.
INFps strangely seem like the most consistently sociable followed by ESTps.

in my own personal experience, my "social energy" tends to wax and wane through phases; at one point i will feel "energized" and go into social situations chin-up, despite the thought in the back of my head that is constantly there nagging "aww i dont wanna", and usually come out glad I had ignored that inner voice in the long run. i feel motivated, and just have this burning desire to get things done that need to be done.

then other times i legitimately just do not feel like doing anything or going anywhere, even if it involves the most minimal interpersonal interaction. so I tend to switch between outgoing and withdrawn. i ultimately value my serenity and privacy above everything else. It's sort of like an extremely mild bipolar. I wouldn't really equate it with a "mood shift" anyhow, I think of it as more of an energy transfer. Sometimes it's running high, sometimes it's running low. My moods seem to be pretty constant. I don't think I suffer from anything clinical, or at least, not anything severe enough to require medicinal intervention.

I've also considered the possibility that my father and perhaps even myself could (have) suffer(ed) from one form or another of ADD. My case is probably extremely mild, but I have never been properly diagnosed, and to the best of my knowledge, my father was never even tested. Just disclaiming that for the record.

[heath]

Ajax, on Feb 14 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

Oh, but wait! I forget to factor in the lesbians. They really could turn out to be humanity's last hope to make it. All they have to do is put some guy (know of anyone who might be interested heath?) in a little cage, fed him water and bread regularly and "milk" him daily so that procreation may continue. Hopefully he will not be some stuck up, anal, dumb guy (who misguidedly thinks he is clever) and whose genes will therefore be of poor quality and cause humanity's IQ points to drop by approximately twenty points with each successive generation.

no, i don't know anybody who likes living in cages. :\

[Ajax]

heath, on Feb 15 2008, 06:03 PM, said:

no, i don't know anybody who likes living in cages. :\

Hmmm, too bad for you them. Cages are fun.

[Ajax]

cogsci, on Feb 15 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

in my own personal experience, my "social energy" tends to wax and wane through phases; at one point i will feel "energized" and go into social situations chin-up, despite the thought in the back of my head that is constantly there nagging "aww i dont wanna", and usually come out glad I had ignored that inner voice in the long run. i feel motivated, and just have this burning desire to get things done that need to be done.

then other times i legitimately just do not feel like doing anything or going anywhere, even if it involves the most minimal interpersonal interaction. so I tend to switch between outgoing and withdrawn. i ultimately value my serenity and privacy above everything else. It's sort of like an extremely mild bipolar. I wouldn't really equate it with a "mood shift" anyhow, I think of it as more of an energy transfer. Sometimes it's running high, sometimes it's running low. My moods seem to be pretty constant. I don't think I suffer from anything clinical, or at least, not anything severe enough to require medicinal intervention.

I've also considered the possibility that my father and perhaps even myself could (have) suffer(ed) from one form or another of ADD. My case is probably extremely mild, but I have never been properly diagnosed, and to the best of my knowledge, my father was never even tested. Just disclaiming that for the record.

I once considered that I might have some kind of bipolar disorder but apparently I don't. Socionically, my issues might be linked to weak Si. I have huge energy fluctuations that really don't seem to have a connection to anything, looking at it at a distance it seems really irrational to me. Except for INFjs it seems intuitives often have naturally lower attention spans, lack a sense of certainty in anything and get really bored very quickly.

[esper]

Ajax, on Feb 10 2008, 06:20 AM, said:

Contrary to popular opinion I actually think beta is the most non social of all quadras, yes I do believe this. Sure there are ENFj-Ni and ESTps who are quite outgoing and INFps who like a good party. However, I think it is more common to find INFps who think they don't fit in anywhere and ESTps who are shadowy and more in the background and ENFjs who are very dark and into themselves because they are too weird/different for most people. I think almost all ENFj entertainers and public figures are people who are rarely seen in the spotlight. It is hard to think of a famous beta celebrity who is frequently in the news or seen out on the town partying. Then some ISTjs are just downright not into socializing and get bored if they try to do it.

beta is in general is a rather dark quadra full of goth like people and those who dislike bright things and bright lights. I think Si quadra types are more into brightness and are more outgoing. Again, I think people forget that a Fe is one of the "internal" functions and see it as something to do with loudness and outwardness and mistake the atmosphere, alive-ness and energy that exists in alpha as similar to that which exists in beta when it isn't.

Am I crazy or might this be a little true?

People seem to have the same concept about E4s, but I am not like that.

From my experience of them, beta people can easily be certain types of 4, 6, & 8. Comparing that to the groups I've hung out with, I can easily see what you mean about them being more 'introverted' as opposed to those people who just want to get out and be "social" in the conventional sense of the word.

That's only a personal experience, though, so it could be just limited to certain strains. An experience of a group that smells like sweet pipe smoke and beer, relaxed but random and silly, indulgent and playful, distrustful and uninterested in those who view themselves as "social" for their apparent fakeness. All the flavors mix together and create this recognizable "aura." o.o

Ajax, on Feb 14 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

I see a lot of quite "normal" betas being socially aloof, like they don't really fit in anywhere except with other betas. Even the ENFj-Ni who I think are the most outgoing type in beta can seem to put on a big "show" for others but then report after doing it they felt like they were all alone and did not connect with anyone. It could be the natural personality or some kind of pathology like depression though. To be honest most intuitives usually seem depressed or something else to me anyway.
INFps strangely seem like the most consistently sociable followed by ESTps.

Hmm...do betas always feel so removed and disconnected? In my experience of those I know it actually would seem to be true, although in different ways for each type. Interesting.

cogsci, on Feb 15 2008, 08:15 AM, said:

in my own personal experience, my "social energy" tends to wax and wane through phases; at one point i will feel "energized" and go into social situations chin-up, despite the thought in the back of my head that is constantly there nagging "aww i dont wanna", and usually come out glad I had ignored that inner voice in the long run. i feel motivated, and just have this burning desire to get things done that need to be done.

then other times i legitimately just do not feel like doing anything or going anywhere, even if it involves the most minimal interpersonal interaction. so I tend to switch between outgoing and withdrawn. i ultimately value my serenity and privacy above everything else. It's sort of like an extremely mild bipolar. I wouldn't really equate it with a "mood shift" anyhow, I think of it as more of an energy transfer. Sometimes it's running high, sometimes it's running low. My moods seem to be pretty constant. I don't think I suffer from anything clinical, or at least, not anything severe enough to require medicinal intervention.

I've also considered the possibility that my father and perhaps even myself could (have) suffer(ed) from one form or another of ADD. My case is probably extremely mild, but I have never been properly diagnosed, and to the best of my knowledge, my father was never even tested. Just disclaiming that for the record.

hehe me too I don't think I am ADD but I get called that by people with more consistent states and focus.

[Morcheeba]

Ajax, on Feb 14 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

I see a lot of quite "normal" betas being socially aloof, like they don't really fit in anywhere except with other betas. Even the ENFj-Ni who I think are the most outgoing type in beta can seem to put on a big "show" for others but then report after doing it they felt like they were all alone and did not connect with anyone. It could be the natural personality or some kind of pathology like depression though. To be honest most intuitives usually seem depressed or something else to me anyway.
INFps strangely seem like the most consistently sociable followed by ESTps.

Hmm...do betas always feel so removed and disconnected? In my experience of those I know it actually would seem to be true, although in different ways for each type. Interesting.

I know for a fact that I'm much more removed and aloof unless I know the people very well; in which case, my overly dramatic self starts to manifest itself. If I don't know you, I can be quiet and come across as dark and reclusive. On the other hand, my INFp friend is the exact opposite; he is not elusive, mysterious or aloof in any way. He gets along with everyone and doesn't seem to hold anything back. Of course, I think enneagram plays a part in this as well. I'm a 4 he's a 2, enough said.

[silverchris9]

Nope. Not true. Although those who feel marginalized often identify as betas, because betas are extreme in whatever we do, there are just as many betas who are very much integrated into the culture they are in. Honestly, being/feeling marginalized is one of the least type-related things ever, imo.

[esper]

Morcheeba, on 24 October 2010 - 10:19 PM, said:

Ajax, on Feb 14 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

I see a lot of quite "normal" betas being socially aloof, like they don't really fit in anywhere except with other betas. Even the ENFj-Ni who I think are the most outgoing type in beta can seem to put on a big "show" for others but then report after doing it they felt like they were all alone and did not connect with anyone. It could be the natural personality or some kind of pathology like depression though. To be honest most intuitives usually seem depressed or something else to me anyway.
INFps strangely seem like the most consistently sociable followed by ESTps.

Hmm...do betas always feel so removed and disconnected? In my experience of those I know it actually would seem to be true, although in different ways for each type. Interesting.

I know for a fact that I'm much more removed and aloof unless I know the people very well; in which case, my overly dramatic self starts to manifest itself. If I don't know you, I can be quiet and come across as dark and reclusive. On the other hand, my INFp friend is the exact opposite; he is not elusive, mysterious or aloof in any way. He gets along with everyone and doesn't seem to hold anything back. Of course, I think enneagram plays a part in this as well. I'm a 4 he's a 2, enough said.

i dont think it has to do with quadra...

[Gilly]

idk what the fuck he is talking about, EIE-Fes can be some seriously loud and talkative motherfuckers, along with SLE-Ses. IEI-Fes are also often surprisingly outgoing. Even LSIs can be rather sociable; I think they are one of the types most likely to socialize both for fun and to sort of intentionally improve at it. SLE-Tis and IEI-Nis are the most noticeably taciturn of Betas in the traditional sense of the word, IMO. The p-sub rationals tend to fall somewhere in the middle, I think, although there are some exceedingly loudmouthed and boisterous EIE-Nis.

[Gilly]

Morcheeba, on 24 October 2010 - 10:19 PM, said:

I know for a fact that I'm much more removed and aloof unless I know the people very well; in which case, my overly dramatic self starts to manifest itself. If I don't know you, I can be quiet and come across as dark and reclusive. On the other hand, my INFp friend is the exact opposite; he is not elusive, mysterious or aloof in any way. He gets along with everyone and doesn't seem to hold anything back. Of course, I think enneagram plays a part in this as well. I'm a 4 he's a 2, enough said.

An IEI 2? What the hell? He sounds more SEI.